One year after in office, the Nigerian Society of Engineers’President, Engr Babagana Mohammed submits report. In a live interview, he talked about how his vision for NSE is being implemented despite Covid 19, the plan to establish the Engineering Staff College, supports to innovation, unity in the society and leadership succession among others.
In her usual tradition, Engineers’ Forum (the mouthpiece of engineering professionals) serves you at the table.
Mr President, before your assumption of office as the 32nd President of NSE, you granted Engineers’ Forum interview where you articulated your vision and upon your inauguration, you submitted a robust vision which you said will anchor on the primary responsibility of engineers which is to tackle complex national problems. Would you say you have been able to implement/achieve this vision and what are the challenges in the course of implementation?
Yes, thank you for this opportunity. On inauguration we reeled out a lot of programs for the betterment of our society and for the well-beings of Nigerians. We started January 11th and March 6th, thereabout, COVID-19 started, so many things changed as a result of the pandemic, all over the world, but that did not stop us from doing what we were supposed to do. We did a lot of underground works, virtually.
We started the virtual council meetings in Nigeria and that did not stopped us from achieving what we wanted to achieve. Yes, we may not have achieved everything we planned to, but I think we achieved 80% of what we intended to do. The year 2020, was a year that nobody can claim anything out of because of COVID-19 closure; 3 – 4 months, EndSARS closure came in 2 months, nothing was happening. So, out of 12 months, we had virtually 6 months out of office, out of work. Despite that, we have raised the level of advocacy that we intended, we identified the lack of competent hands when it comes to graduate in relation to the world of work because of the quality of education, which made us set the intention to refurbish and repair dysfunctional teaching equipment in the universities and polytechnics – it was deliberate.
I have personally visited 3 universities and 3 polytechnics in Nigeria. The intention was to visit two each in every geo-political zone of the country, but because of the restrictions we were only able to visit 3 universities and 3 polytechnics. We had a template for them, we went to their workshops, we saw what was working and those that were not. We however got something terribly wrong, we did not have donors. NSE is a non-governmental organization, it is not a producing company, we rely on people, we maximize what people give us, but we are still working on our template as there are things we have identified that are repairable.
In the universities and polytechnics, I saw Lathe machines, fine, they are obsolete, but they are still not working. What we want is a situation that even if these equipment are obsolete, they would still be functional, let people touch what is working, then the issue of modernization can come later, but first let these students put their hands on the Lathe machines that are working. I saw new CNC machines installed, for the past 15 years they are not working, I asked why this was so, they said the installation was wrong, had issues with the manual, and I asked – who commissioned it? Nobody could give an answer. Then we go to the Ministry of Finance to get funds and we are told that billions have been expended on this, of what use. Fifteen years equipment still not working and spending all this money, for what? Who was trained? And it was as a result of these movements made to universities and polytechnics that helped me identify all these lapses, otherwise I would not have identified them. I am now going back to the drawing table, I need to get experts who would go and handle those machines, because people need to know, work on it, train people with it, so they they have to come and make these machines work. You can’t just buy a machine and go and fifteen years later nobody can operate it. We have been to several places, so many fora, advising, talking, and just to tell them that engineering is the way to go.
When President Buhari said he wants to lift 100 million Nigerians out of poverty in ten years, it is not by farming. If you have a population of 100 million and you make all of them farmers, you have lost already, you are a failure – that is not what President Buhari meant. Instead, he is going to give skills to 100 million people who would stand on their own, be producers of things we needs and the likes, that is the interpretation.
At some point, the incident of building collapse got to an embarrassing level. NSE and the Nigerian Institute of Quantity Surveyors planned a collaboration to organize Construction Summit for Built Environment Professionals. Why this summit, was it done or when is it coming up?
It has not been done, it is upcoming. We had an engagement with them last week. We have agreed in the Built Environment and we are trying to have this summit. The Built Environment is made up of six other groups like Surveyors – to bring these other groups to agree is an issue. I tried to tell them now that, whether you like it or not, in the Built Environment, the leader is the Engineer, they have to agree. A building cannot stand without engineering and that goes to show that engineering is the leader, but everybody has a role to play, and nobody should play another’s role, once we get that right, everything would fall into place. That is what I kept telling them every day.
Sometimes ago, you visited the Minister of Interior, His Excellency Engr. Ogbeni Abdulrauf Aregbesola and held discussions with him. Did such visit bring about results?
Yes the minister is happy with us and has given us his support. In fact, he has engaged NSE in two committees – International Passport and ID Committee and Implementation, of recent. We were asked to bring two members to participate in monitoring and give their engineering input, in the Ministry of Interior.
Recently, you inaugurated a Special Committee to midwife the establishment of Engineering Staff College of Nigeria (ESCON). What is ESCON all about and how does the Society intend to run it?
We have the National War College that trains the army on war. We have Administrative Staff College that trains members on admin affairs. Engineering has gone beyond borders, there is a need for us to have a school that would train high level managers. We only have one as at today, and it is in India, wehave none in Africa. The purpose is to build capacity, to redefine engineering, at the very highest level. After going through everything, I discovered that is missing – in Nigeria, in Africa and engineering is not only needed in Nigeria but in the whole of Africa. If you look at the whole world, it is infrastructural deficient, Africa is an infrastructural deficient continent, and Nigeria is an infrastructural deficient nation. We need to build capacity, sustainability is key, whatever we are doing has to be sustained, and it can only be sustained through knowledge. That is the importance of this school and we have already handed it to Giga Plus Consultant, which is a combination of Nigerian Engineers companies, all our engineers have a stake in Giga Plus. We want to showcase Nigerian engineers through Giga Plus. We have a concept already, it has been given to them, and we would hit the ground very soon. Giga Plus would hit the ground very soon, they would go out and source for money, and the project would come. We have a plan already, Giga Plus is good to go. I would just give them their letter next week. I had a meeting with them and I want them to start looking for money. The source of funding are three options – PPP, Nigerian Engineers contributions, and then Loan, which I am not looking at. I am looking at the contributions from Nigerian engineers, they have stakes there. It is our school, it is our property, it is going to be a money raiser for everybody, and it is an investment for all of us – we would all take shares, you can buy one share at 5,000; 10,000 until we are 50,000. If we all buy, that is 50,000 times 10,000 which totals more than 5 billion naira and that is enough to build a school. I don’t want money from any other source, interest, no. We would raise the money internally, no interest, we would build it, and make our money out of it. You do not wait for government for everything, no. We need to do our own part. Government has done enough by training us, giving us school, and environment. So, we should now give it back to the society.
You have a plan to lead an aggressive advocacy for exploitation and utilisation of available natural resources for sustainable economic development of all the regions of the country by engaging the state governments. What is the plan all about; is it in the realm of state control resources?
First and foremost, what brought about this initiative? In Nigeria, everyone is keen on oil. Oil is coming to an end very soon, because one, electric vehicles are coming out, the use of fuel and oil would drop drastically, it is happening in the world, it would come to Nigeria – we are part of the world. So, oil would deplete, its production would deplete, its importance in the world would deplete.
Let’s come to Nigeria, our six geo-political zone, every single zone has a specialty for something – we were all independent before, every zone can take care of itself, we all know that. We can go back to it. Last two days, I came back from Ebonyi, if you see what is happening there, I think Ebonyi is the best state in Nigeria, and go and look at their monthly allocation from government, they are the 6th from the bottom on the ladder, google it, but the infrastructure from the government cannot be found anywhere else. Ebonyi has built a hospital that is the best in Africa, it is at 85% – 90% completion. It has built a mall that is the biggest in Africa, it has built a mini Dubai in Ebonyi that you cannot find anywhere, and it is also building the best airport in the whole of Africa. The Airport in Abuja has a runway of 3.8 kilometre, the one in Ebonyi is 4.1 kilometre, that means an A380 airplane can land in Ebonyi, but it cannot land in Abuja.
Mr President, is it not a case of misplaced priority when it comes to some of the projects like the airport, how many people are going to use that airport, considering the economic viability of the state?
Not at all. That is one thing that people get wrong. They have met all the requirement for people to use their facility. The mini-Dubai in Ebonyi, once it is operational, people would come from around the world, planes would land there from around the world in Ebonyi – planes that cannot land in Abuja, would land in Ebonyi. Come to think of it, because Abuja does not have mini-Dubai. The governor has three to four years to complete his tenure, he said the hospital is going to be completed by August 2021. The Airport project just started three months ago, they are 50% completed, and he told me by the time I come back in August it would be completed. I went to the field and saw that work is ongoing at every angle. People are working and all of them are Nigerians. I have not seen any foreigners there – all Nigerians. The man has constructed nine fly-overs, not one. He is not making noise about it. Ebonyi state governor has done nine but nobody is hearing about it. He intends to do fifteen – nine of which are already visible, 6 are completed and 3 are on the verge of completion. As Ebonyi continues to do these things, it is going to be another federal capital. I am not from Ebonyi, I wish it were my state, Borno or Yobe, but it goes beyond wishing. It is what is on ground that one talks about.
Can we then say that the four engineers in Government Houses are actually performing well?
From what is available on ground now, I would be very right and unbiased saying engineers in Government Houses have done extremely well. In fact, if every State would have an engineer as a governor, it is better for them, I am not biased, and not because I am the president of the NSE, no. What is happening in Ebonyi and the performance of other governors who are engineers is excellent. Go to Borno state, it is on the news, everybody has seen it. He has six commissioners in his cabinet, every appointment is an engineer, go and see the kind of work that is being done in the State, despite this insurgency, go and see the amount of work being done by this young man. Go to Oyo state, run by His Excellency Engr Seyi Makinde, and ask them, he does not talk, but they are seeing the result, these are the people I want. His Excellency Engr Abdullahi Sule of Nasarawa state is performing well. So, if all States have engineers as governors and that is what I want to see, I think I will be very happy for Nigeria. I also want to see a Nigerian president as an engineer, if that is what it is, then the Nigerian President should be an engineer – sentiments aside.
Recently, the government rolled out a N2.3 trillion Stimulus Package under the National Economic Sustainability Plan. Was there any coordinated approach from NSE to ensure members benefitted from it?
No. Sometimes, government is government. The problem with government is that they sometimes go out and do what they want to do, based on the advice given to them by certain people. Things do not succeed like that, there has to be co-ordinated approach to things, and there is need to hold talks with professionals. It is a good program, whoever sat down and brought it about did something good, but there need to have conversations with professionals. It is good to give stimulus packages, it is good to encourage people to come up, but things need to be coordinated and for this to happen, professionals have to be involved.
Point of highlight in your vision is advocacy for Innovation Management and the commercialization of members’ Innovative Projects in collaboration with relevant government agencies. Is the Society engaging and supporting members in this direction who have prototypes?
Yes, this is very key to me, and when I said it, I meant it with all sincerity. One does not need to be an engineer only. There are many people who are innovative, what they need is support, and as I speak to you now, I am in talks with a boy in Kano, whose video I saw. He is just too innovative, although his schooling level is low, but somehow God just gave him so many things up there – he is an engineer by nature and there are many of them out there. So, I am pulling them out to fund them, as I want to see where they can reach with whatever they are developing.
Once they do something better, I would expose them to the defined world and to the market so that they can come and cross the ‘Ts’ and dot the ‘Is’ and get these things working. They can do what they want to do, then these other people can come and interpret it into chips and the likes, because we need to tap into these knowledge, which are God-given.
There are things that sometimes a person who is not an engineer can sit down and come up with. I have identified three or four of these kinds of people across Nigeria. I am very happy with them and talking to them. I am not just looking for people who start welding pipes and the likes together in the name of wanting to make a car, no. You have to show me some intelligence in you. An App for instance, intelligence is required, although it is not what can be seen physical as big. Also chips, and what have you.
How did you manage to think this chip can do this or that? Basically, employing the use of critical thinking. So, when you start telling me things related to this, I take interest in you. The issue is that NSE is interested in these innovations and will support them. Coming down to the last time, NSE gave scholarship to sixteen students even though I was not part of their selection, I do not know them, and neither do I know where they came from. I saw what was trending on social media, that they passed their UTME, they had the best results. They all chose engineering as first courses to study. So, who am I not to support them? As the president of NSE, if I saw that and ignored it, then I will not be comfortable as president.
People were saying I should pay them 200,000 naira, I said no, I do not pay intelligence with 200,000 naira. I have raised the bar, everything intelligence and engineering is a million. If you cannot give any best student in engineering a millionnaira, then keep your money. I went somewhere and they said this is the best student in engineering, we are giving him 100,000 naira, I said no please, stop it; hold your money. I asked, how can you give the best student that amount? I am a Nigerian, that boy’s father has a car and he would definitely take a part of the money to fix his car, buy a bag of rice for the family to eat that month, his mother would also take a share, so how much would be left? If you cannot give a million naira, hold your money. I gave him a million naira from NSE, for being the best. We must encourage people deliberately.
Coming down to the Nigerian Universities Engineering Students Association, I honestly talk to them, you are our engineering arm, please do not bother yourself with politics, bother yourself with schooling. I made provisions for them in their meetings, by giving them some money to encourage them and for them to meet their needs. As president, it is what I came here to do? We are encouraging our students, they must read and if they do so, they would get the support from us – it is available.
Look at how we supported federal government during COVID – 19, we gave them 10 million naira, hand sanitizers, facemasks, and handwashing machines; all made by Nigerian engineers for free. We are the only professional body that gave federal government money. Chemical engineers came out because of COVID and started manufacturing hand sanitizers, these are things they were taught to do. Ordinarily, ventilators are between $30,000 to $60,000 per one and it can only be used as one per person. Nigerian engineers are already designing one ventilator for 8 people, I told them to patent it, and what is the cost? About 250,000 naira. For some of it, the materials being used are wood, some rubber. They are taking it to LUTH for testing, once it is out, apart from getting it at a lower cost, it is going to solve so many things. What is normally between the ranges of 30 – 60 thousand dollars, is now coming to a thousand dollars in Nigeria and instead of buying one for everybody, we’ll be buying one for eight people, just link a rubber to everybody’s nose and that’s it. There is capacity in Nigeria, it is about leadership, once people who are right thinking get involved it would move and people would tap into it.
Mr President one of the things that concerns engineers, especially the upcoming ones is job. We keep saying there are no jobs and the younger ones always blame the older ones for not providing jobs. How do we resolve this job creation issue?
Let me be honest with you, two issues here now. One, all of us in Nigeria are not honest, I can tell you this, and even the leaders are not honest. Secondly, the younger ones must accept that it is no longer rosy. If you come out of school, you do not expect the government to give you a job, you need to be entrepreneurial, take off your shoes, and run on the street to feed yourself. These two things are key. Why did I say the leaders are at fault? If we are to be honest with ourselves, go to civil service, from all the perspectives, check their ages, everybody is almost retired, they are above 60, but they do not want to go, so where will employment come from? A 60 year old is saying he is 52 years old; he would have created employment eight years ago with that age gap. Individuals are the issues and not government. I pray we will wake up and engineers would work out quickly to get an age certifying machine, when they put the machine on you, it would tell you your age, up front. We would know them by their ages. People would be forced to use it. Somebody left office at 60 last three weeks and after a week, he was celebrating 72 years of age in his house. So which age do we agree with now? We have to be honest with ourselves. For my younger colleagues, first they need to up their skills and they must explore and use their skills. Nobody is going to give them jobs, I repeat, nobody. Government cannot give everyone job, it is not possible. Government would provide school for you to go and create enabling environment for you create your business and earn a living. To feed yourself, is your responsibility. Before, yes, government fed us and gave us work; gave us everything, now it is no longer possible. Our number is very large, so government cannot give everybody work.
You mentioned preparation of a 5-year Strategic Development Master Plan during your investiture. Is the Master Plan ready or is work in progress and what should we expect?
The plan is ready. For NSE, we have five years; five years because this is what somebody can start and use your two-years, you move out and the man coming in after you can continue. If you take ten years, most of them collapse, somebody would just come and scatter it, so it is better you just take what you can run with. Be ambitious, but do not be too ambitious. When you are over ambitious it would collapse. I took five years, I am going to be part of it. What I would not be part of is the remaining three years. For the five years I am part of the system, two years I would be in charge of the system, then the other two years I would be sitting behind and watching, but I can still be guiding them. So, for four years, I would be around. All these things I am saying, I am going to see them through. I was visited by an Engineer, he came to my office and extoled me saying Mr President, you have done extremely well despite this pandemic; that I have surpassed all our records and I said no, I am leaning on your shoulders, I cannot surpass your records. He said this Engineering Staff School you are starting is a vision NSE had from day one but nobody did anything about it. He said he does not know how I knew it because when NSE started in 1958, this was on their table, which they all looked at and passed. He said he wondered who is guiding me and that whoever is doing that is guiding me rightly. He said I should please, not leave the table as president until I break the ground and raise the foundation before I leave, if not so, it would dieand I was encouraged and happy. I was not there when NSE was created, I looked at things and saw what could work, what is possible, and what is workable, basically make analysis. We do not just jump into things anyhow. When people were saying COVID – 19 we will not work, we worked. All the supports we are giving to branches and divisions, it is not that NSE has money but it is strategically done. There are a number of engineers who have chosen to have us lead, it is not because we are wiser, but it is because they trust us. It is not an opportunity to steal or mislead them. It is an opportunity to do your best and let your colleagues see that you are the best for them, simple. So whatever, we are doing, I make sure that it is open, everyone would come and see it. You should know that I got a call from the NSE Port Harcourt branch just yesterday, they are back to NSE.
Mr President that was the next question to ask. Before the assumption of office there were issues of discontentmentby some members of NSE especially in the South South/ South East regions and you promised to address the issues once you assume leadership during our last interview with you. Can you inform members of this honorable Society what steps you have taken to resolve the issues and where we are today?
I am happy because when I assumed office, I met a fragmented NSE where we struggled to count and ask ourselves if we have formed quorum in council. Today, I am telling you, we have full house NSE, our number are good and we are not struggling. Last two days, I got a call from a former NSE executive; a 72 year old man whom I received two missed calls from and I returned the call, and he asked I should not be angry with them that they are back to NSE. He begged and invited me officially to come to Port Harcourt. When certain things are done against a person, they have a right to react, but one should not over react and get injured in the process. Reaction should be done rationally. I also believe that in this world, anything has to be discussed. You can be cheated, bring it to the table for discussion. The people to discuss with you are not animals, they would see where you are cheated and then somebody would address it. I knew there were a lot of issues, fine, that is why we are all humans, we can never say everything is smooth, but always explore discussion. It is better for all of us. The founders did not have the amenities or privilege we have now, but they made it work and in unity, so we must continue to cherish this unity and make things work.
Finally, Mr President what future do you see for this great country knowing full well that Engineers have greater responsibilities and duties to move the nation forward.
This country need engineers and engineers need this country. That is how it works. Nigeria cannot grow without engineering. Engineering is life and life is engineering. For us to move forward engineering and engineers must be harnessed. People need to be deliberate about supporting engineers for them to grow. Look at all developed nations, they support engineering and engineers deliberately to grow. No nation that has kept engineering and engineers at the back sit has developed. Take it or leave it. That is how it works.
In addition, leadership in NSE is key. There should be succession plan. Who are supposed to be our next leaders? Every Engineer in NSE is a potential next NSE president but we cannot all be the president and the society has grown. We can no longer hand over our society to the hands of hoodlums or people who are not what they are supposed to be. We have had some rough times which should not be because we are engineers and as such we are supposed to be calculative. Going forward, we must up our game and know the kind of people that would come in to manage the affairs of NSE as president, because we cannot bring somebody who has not managed a project of 200 million anywhere to come and manage NSE with 2 billion naira project; It is not done anywhere. So, we need to look at everybody very critically, look at their records, their antecedents, and what have you before we choose who becomes what. We can no longer be sentimental. This is our profession, this is our society, and we have gone too far, we cannot come back, so people who come and waste our resources, we cannot afford such any longer. I am urging our colleagues, keep sentiments aside, before we go for any elections, we must crosscheck and scrutinize; if possible, debate it on many platforms before we pick or endorse anybody for anything.
